I have reserved to myself 144,000 who will not bow to the image

They have tore down thine altars O father, they have built an image of BAAL

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David144
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Posts: 178

The apostles never once baptized in the name of the father, son, and holy spirit. So either

 

1) The disciples may have been in direct rebellion against Jesus.

2) They may have misunderstood what he said.

3) Matthew 28:19 may be a gloss. Perhaps Jesus never gave this command.

4) The disciples understood the command of Jesus differently than most Trinitarians understand it today.

 

I personally don't believe #1 or #2. There is evidence for #3, however the scriptures cannot be broken[John 10:35] and I accept it for what it says, but like the disciples I believe #4 is the explanation here.

 

Firstly it says "in the name of" which is singular not in the names of which is pluaral. When we do something "in the name of" this can mean in the "authority of". If you remember in the book of Acts chapter 2 Peter said.

 

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

 

So they were baptized in the name of Jesus. But they recieved the gift of "the holy ghost" and this gift was given from the father. So all 3 are present here.

 

Act 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

Act 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

 

So again above here you see the father gives the promise, the promise is the holy spirit and they are baptized in the name of Jesus. All 3 are there. Hopefully, you are seeing that I understand it differently than the Trinitarian. There is a parralel verse to Matthew 28:19 which documents the same event. It is in Luke 24. This reinforces what I'm saying.

 

Luk 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his[Jesus] name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Luk 24:48 And ye are witnesses of these things.

Luk 24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high[the holy ghost]. [brackets added]

 

So again we see the power "the Holy Spirit" the father who gives this promise of the holy spirit and they are baptized in the name of Jesus. This is the exact same event as Matt 28:19 worded differently for clarity.

 

Now, not all 3 are God. Look at this next verse and there is something I want you to notice. All 3 are mentioned, the father, son and holy spirit but only 1 is called "God". And to most Trinitarians this is the #1 proof text for the Trinity. But notice it teaches there is "One God the father" not "One God the father, son and holy spirit"

 

2Co 13:14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.

 

So in that verse we have "God" "Christ" and the "holy Ghost". Only one being in that verse is "God" and it's the father alone.

 

 

--

1Jn 4:9  In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

September 6, 2009 at 11:17 PM Flag Quote & Reply

jacobus1v@hotmail.com
Member
Posts: 140

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

 But only if you are willing to do the will of God and keep His commandments those commandments are the ten commandments given by the Son of God who was equal with His Father. John 14:15-17. is at the present Jesus Christ the Son of Man but will return as Jehovah the Son of God. Revelation 1:8. to judge the world.

Jack.

 

September 7, 2009 at 12:48 AM Flag Quote & Reply

jacobus1v@hotmail.com
Member
Posts: 140

David, are you still not able to find out who will convert the big crowd in heaven and will prepare them for the kingdom on the New Earth?

 Also when will the books opened and will the judgement take place.

 some of the false doctrines proclaimed by the old and new SDA Church.

Jack. .

September 14, 2009 at 1:54 PM Flag Quote & Reply

David144
Member
Posts: 178

Jack.

 

The big crowd will be converted before they reach heaven.   The books were opened in 1844, the judgement was set.   Christ is interceding in the most holy place as our high priest in heaven and the cleansing of the sanctuary is taking place.  

September 15, 2009 at 8:23 PM Flag Quote & Reply

jacobus1v@hotmail.com
Member
Posts: 140

Hi. David so not only the 144000 will go to heaven because they are all converted. Where in the Bible is stated that the Jugement was set in 1844?

 So what will be the purpose for Christ to rule with His saints for a thousand year in heaven. Are not all the 144000 and the big crowd converted already as you mention. before.

  So what is the truth according to the word of God?

Jack.

September 16, 2009 at 1:44 PM Flag Quote & Reply

David144
Member
Posts: 178

Hi Jack,

 

In 1844 we entered into the time of the investigative judgment according to Daniel 8:14 which tells us about Christ entering the most Holy place and performing the cleansing of the sanctuary after the time of the 2300 days has happened. 

September 22, 2009 at 3:47 PM Flag Quote & Reply

jacobus1v@hotmail.com
Member
Posts: 140

Are not all the 144000 and the big crowd converted already as you mention. before.

So what is the truth according to the word of God?

Jack.

September 22, 2009 at 9:04 PM Flag Quote & Reply

David144
Member
Posts: 178

Act 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

 

They might be converted long before, however there is still a judgement to take place. 

 

Dan 7:9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.

Dan 7:10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

 

The timing of this can be shown to be before the resurrection. 

 

Rev 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come

 

And if we study carefully we can find that this message was given to the world in 1844 and we are still currently living in the hour of his judgement. 

September 22, 2009 at 11:55 PM Flag Quote & Reply

jacobus1v@hotmail.com
Member
Posts: 140

Rev 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come

Who will be judged God's people or those who has not received the gospel?

 Matthew 22:8-10 tells us that God's people are judged and not those who has not received the gospel, the good and the bad alike will go to the wedding hall and the wedding hall will be filled. with people.

Jack.

September 23, 2009 at 12:41 AM Flag Quote & Reply

David144
Member
Posts: 178

Jack,

 

Matt 22:8-10 does not say "the good and bad alike enter the wedding hall".    It says "the good and bad alike are called". 

 

Mat 22:9 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid[call] to the marriage.

 

The principle is when you are called you are a servant of sin.  But after recieving the call you are servant of righteousness. 

 

Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

 

Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

 

See Christ has delivered us from that wretched old man that we are after recieving the call.   We don't continue in sin after we accept the call. 

 

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

 

The bad who are called are called to take off those filthy garments and put on a robe of righteousness.    They are called out of Babylon.  And if they refuse the call they cannot enter the wedding hall.  They cannot go into the wedding hall with the wrong garments on.   Christ offers them a white robe of righteousness.  This righteousness must be put on before entering the wedding hall as the parable goes. 

 

Mat 22:11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:

Mat 22:12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.

Mat 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

September 23, 2009 at 12:10 PM Flag Quote & Reply

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