I have reserved to myself 144,000 who will not bow to the image
They have tore down thine altars O father, they have built an image of BAAL
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| Forum Home > Truth About God > Who is God? One or three? What does the bible say? | ||
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Member Posts: 178 |
Of the 1,354 times the word “God” is used in the New Testament, more than 99% of
the time it refers exclusively to God, the Father, while it only applies to His
Son four times. (John 1:1; Matt 1:23; Hebrews 1:8; Phillipians
2:6) | |
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Member Posts: 140 |
What is the present position of Jesus Christ in God’s plan of salvation? And what is the danger of the trinity doctrine in the Christian faith? Is Jesus God or is He the Son of man at the present time? Or is He is fully human? denying this is the spirit of the anti Christ Satan. 1 John 4:2-3. This is how you will be able to know whether it is God’s Spirit: anyone who acknowledges that Jesus Christ came as a human being has the Spirit who comes from God. But anyone who denies this about Jesus does not have the Spirit from God. The spirit that he has is from the Enemy of Christ: you heard that it would come, and now it is here in the world already. Question: Can we receive salvation through Jesus Christ by His Father or by Jesus Christ Himself? If Jesus Christ is God we can receive salvation by him and no need for His Father or the Holy Spirit if he is also God. But the Bible is very clear we can only receive salvation through Jesus Christ. Was this always the case? No Jehovah the Son of God who was equal with His Father was able to forgive or sins and led us to salvation. This was in Old Testament time. When he was still the Almighty God Jehovah. Speaking of the Son of God. Revelation 1:8 declared that at the present time he Is Jesus Christ the Son of Man. Who was before The Almighty God Jehovah the Son of God. And will be again Jehovah the Almighty the Son of God when he will come again. He was never the Almighty Jehovah the Son of God in function as our saviour and the Son of man our mediator at the same time. This according to Revelation 1:8. Believing in more than one God who is able to save us is against the Ten Commandments. The Father can’t save us without the mediation of Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit well some belief is also God can’t save us also without the mediation of Jesus Christ. Only Jehovah the Son of God and our creator can save us without the mediation of His Father or without the help of God the Holy Spirit. As can be seen in the writings in Old Testament time. Without obeying the Ten Commandments of God the world is without revelations from God’s Spirit and will be lost. Malachi 4:4-5; John 14:15-17. J van der Geest.
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Member Posts: 140 |
Question. Is Jesus one with is Father or was He one with His Father. When can we one with His Father? When God's Spirit is within us. Jack | |
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Member Posts: 178 |
Hi Jack, Welcome, long time no see. Good to see you by the way. I will attempt to respond to your question as I believe scripture teaches us. I think you are coming from the trinitarian perspective. You asked "What is the present position of Christ in God's plan of salvation?" Well, according to Hebrews 1. Christ in on the right hand of God, that is the father, also known as "the majesty on high" and "the ancient of days" making intercession for us. Dan 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. You asked if Jesus was "God" or the "son of man" right now? My answer "Christ is the son of God right now and stands at the right hand of the only true God the father and stands between our "one God the father" and us as our "one mediator". He was fully a man however when he was among us he had the same access to divinity that we have in our flesh. Anybody who says he had access to something we didn't while in the flesh is denying that he was made in all points like us. Thus John classes that person as antichrist. Jack you said-Can we receive salvation through Jesus Christ by His Father or by Jesus Christ Himself? There is no other name under heaven by which we can be saved but Jesus Christ. However, Jesus is the son of God. God is the father, and "God was in Christ by his spirit reconciling the world unto himself. Christ is Lord to the glory of God the father. Christ is the express image of his father. 1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. It was a struggle for God to give his beloved son. This struggle and love is destroyed by the trinity. Who is it that will be all in all that Christ himself will be subject to? Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. One God the father and no other God but he. Christ was God by nature, in the form of God and equal with God[John 1:1, Phil 2:6]. However he was "With God" and thus not the eternal one God the father himself. 1Jn 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. That's how he manifested his love. As a loving father, so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten for us stray human beings that we might recieve the spirit of his son, a spirit of adoption wherby we cry abba, father. Jack you said-No Jehovah the Son of God who was equal with His Father was able toforgive or sins and led us to salvation. This was in Old Testamenttime. When he was still the Almighty God Jehovah.[End Quote] Well Jack. Christ came in the name of God. Christ was the angel[messenger] in the bush who said to Moses "I am the God of thy fathers". The key to understanding this passage is understanding Christ is "the messenger of Jehovah". You understand that "malak" is the hebrew word for "angel". And "malak" also translates to "messenger". So Christ is the angel[messenger] with the message speaking on behalf of Jehovah, and not actually Jehovah himself. Jehovah is his father. Act 7:30 And when forty years were expired, there appeared to him in the wilderness of mount Sinai an angel of the Lord in a flame of fire in a bush. Notice the angel of Jehovah in the bush. What does this angel say as Jehovahs "messenger" and on behalf of Jehovah? Act 7:32 Saying, I am the God of thy fathers, the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. Then Moses trembled, and durst not behold. So the angel Michael, on behalf of Jehovah says "I am hath spoken unto you". Let's look at a couple more verses. Jehovah spoke to Moses through his "one mediator". Jack you said-Who was before The Almighty God Jehovah the Son of God. And will beagain Jehovah the Almighty the Son of God when he will come again. Hewas never the Almighty Jehovah the Son of God in function as oursaviour and the Son of man our mediator at the same time.[End Quote] Jack, I would say "Christ was in the form of God, and equal with God". He was God by nature as he posessed all the attributes of God by birth, the firstborn of every creature. The title "almighty one" refers to the father alone. I wrote a reply to Revelation 1:8. I also have a short study on it here: http://www.elijah144.com/revelation18.htm That verse is actually referring to the father. And I'm sure with a careful read you will see this. Jack you said-Believing in more than one God who is able to save us is against theTen Commandments. The Father can?t save us without the mediation ofJesus Christ.[End quote] Right the bible clearly teaches there is only one God the father. Jesus concurred there is no other God but he, and that his is Jesus God and our God, his father, and our father.[John 20:17]. The plan of salvation was devised between the father and son alone. There is no 3rd being. [Zech 6:14, 2 John 1:9] The plan of redemption was arranged in the councils between the Father and the Son. (Ellen White, Review & Herald, May 28, 1908 par. 12)
Even the angels were not permitted to share the counsels between the Father and the Son when the plan of salvation was laid. (Ellen White, Ministry of Healing, page 429)
Before the fall of man, the Son of God had united with his Father in laying the plan of salvation. (Ellen White, Review & Herald, September 13, 1906 par. 4)
Thegreat plan of redemption was laid before the foundation of the world.And Christ, our Substitute and Surety, did not stand alone in thewondrous undertaking of the ransom of man. In the plan to save a lostworld, the counsel was between them both; the covenant of peace was between the Father and the Son. (Ellen White, The Signs of the Times, December 23, 1897, par. 2) Both=2. God and his son. Jack you said-Without obeying the Ten Commandments of God the world is withoutrevelations from God?s Spirit and will be lost. Malachi 4:4-5; John14:15-17.[END QUOTE] I agree we need that spirit in us, which is "Christ in you your hope of glory"[Col 1:27]. The devil has different plans and he wants you to think your comforter is someone else who has not been tempted in all ways and is not able to succor you. There is no comforter like Christ, so tender and so true. He is touched with the feeling of our infirmities. His Spirit speaks to the heart.… The influence of the Holy Spirit is the life of Christ in the soul. (Ellen White, Review & Herald, October 26, 1897)
The reason why the churches are weak and sickly and ready to die is that the enemy has brought influences of a discouraging nature to bear upon trembling souls. He has sought to shut Jesus from their view as the Comforter, as one who reproves, who warns, who admonishes them, saying, “This is the way, walk ye in it.” (Ellen White, Review & Herald, August 26, 1890, also in Reflecting Christ, page 21) Some stop at verse 17 of John 14. Christ says, you know him for he's dwelling with you and shall be in you. Who is he? Is Christ speaking of himself in the "third person"?
Joh 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. AMEN | |
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-- 1Jn 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
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Member Posts: 178 |
Jesus is one with his father in this sense. Joh 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. Joh 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: Here are 2 commentary's on the above passage. One from Ellen, and one from her husband. They were one in the sense that Christ and his father are one.:)
The unity that exists between Christ and His disciples does not destroy the personality of either. They are one in purpose, in mind, in character, but not in person. It is thus that God and Christ are one. {Ministry of Healing Page 422} Jesus prayed that his disciples might be one as he was one with his Father. Thisprayer did not contemplate one disciple with twelve heads, but twelvedisciples, made one in object and effort in the cause of their master.Neither are the Father and the Son parts of the “three-one God.” Theyare two distinct beings, yet one in the design and accomplishment ofredemption. The redeemed, from the first who shares in thegreat redemption, to the last, all ascribe the honor, and glory, andpraise, of their salvation, to both God and the Lamb. (James White,1868, Life Incidents, page 343)
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-- 1Jn 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
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Member Posts: 140 |
Hi David. We know that the Father and His Son are one and equal both are can be called the Almighty God. The text 1:8 is speaking of Jesus Christ not of His Father.Jesus was before the son of God who has laid down his position in heaven to became the son of Man. He was the Son of God before and in the glory of His Father in heaven But became our mediator between His Father and the human race. He is still our mediater and if His work is finished with a person and the character of this person is molded to His character He wil hand this person over to His Father and His Father will fill him with His Spirit the same Spirit that has given Jesus the victory over Satan and sin. See John 14:15-17. Also Revelation The Father will give the judgment to His Son after the final victory over sin Satan. 3:20-21. Jack. | |
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Member Posts: 178 |
Hi Jack, This doesn't sound like normal Trinitarian stuff your puttin up here. Are you trying to say the Holy Spirit is a third divine individual/being co-equal with the father and son? Or are saying the spirit is "the mind, will, actions, character" of the son of God. I mean if you talk to me and you notice I have a great "spirit". Do you believe my spirit is someone else distinct from me? If I have the spirit of Christ, would you say Christ is literally dwelling in me? Or would you say Christ is dwelling in me by another being? Or would you say my spirit is actually me, and that I have a spirit which could be described as something that flows from the father in the form of character, trust, obedience etc. I mean when Paul said "Christ liveth in me". We understand that Christ was not literally living in him, nor was he in him by another distinct individual. Paul was Paul, not someone else posessing him. However he was given fully to God so that it could be said he had the spirit of God. There is a good study on the Holy Spirit here that should clear up this matter in John 14:15-17. http://www.elijah144.com/thegiftholyspirit.htm I hope you will take a look at it. So you can better understand the Holy Spirit. I'm not sure what your saying about Christ handing over a person. Are you referring to him handing over "the holy spirit" as a person?
As far as Christ being called the almighty. Christ came in the name of the "almighty one". The almighty one is the father alone. Christ is the son of the "almighty one". I started a discussion on Revelation 1:8 at this link. http://www.elijah144.com/apps/forums/topics/show/615450-who-is-speaking-in-revelation-1-8 | |
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-- 1Jn 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
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Member Posts: 140 |
David :who was the only true God in old testament time? whas it the Father or Jehovah the Son of God the creator? Who was the person in Revelaton 1:8 who is and was before and will come again as the person who has before Jesus Christ The Son of God the uncreated one?
Did Jesus created himself through Mary or did the spirit of His Father created Jesus Christ? If you get this wrong your worship will be in vain. Jesus Christ has defeated Satan as a human being not as the Son of God. We can have victory over Satan and sin by the Spirit of God the Father and not by the Spirit of Jesus Christ. This is clearly explained By Jesus in John 14:15-27. No I don't believe in the so called Holy Spirit ot the trinty doctrine. I belive that there is one God the Father and the Son. Who are both equal in all things. Jack. Jack | |
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Member Posts: 178 |
Hi Jack, You asked: "who was the only true God in old testament time? whas it the Father or Jehovah the Son of God the creator?" The God of the old testament is none other then the father, the only true God. Christ is never called "Jehovah the son". He is called "Jehovah" because Christ came in Jehovah's name, and declared Jehovah unto us. However, he did not come in his own name. People replied to Christ as Jehovah. "God spoke thru his son"[Heb 1:1-3] Joh 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. The father[Jehovah] the only [Jehovah] works thru his son. The son is his mediator. One who comes in his name to reveal him[the father] to us. You said: Did Jesus created himself through Mary or did the spirit of His Fathercreated Jesus Christ? If you get this wrong your worship will be invain.[End Quote] This is a difficult question, the bible tells us only so much on this matter. Jesus was not created, this is really something we can't fully explain. Mary had the Holy Spirit. The spirit of God. This is not some seperate being that is a ghost that floats around and posesses people. The holy spirit is the spirit of God. It is the mind of Christ. [see 1 Cor 2:12-16] The bible tells us Christ emptied himself[Phi 2:6]. And he was made in the likeness of men as a helpless baby dependant on his mother and father. The bible says nothing about Christ being created but being begotten. As far as when he was made in the likness of men. He was still the "son of God". However in a new sense. He was also the "son of man" in the sense that he was fully a man. A man that was fully God. However emptied of that God nature with access to divinity as you or I after being born of that same spirit have the same access. When we are born of the spirit. That does not mean some seperate individual named "the holy spirit" is creating us. Although it can be said "God has created a new heart in us" or "we are created in Christ Jesus to do good works" and this is the work of the holy spirit. It is God who works in us by his spirit which is him, and his son who make their abode with us. It is not some third ghost being. Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Jack you said-This is clearly explained By Jesus in John 14:15-27. [End quote] Well, I hope you will look at that study on the Holy Spirit. Christ is pretty clear that he is the "comforter" and he will not leave us comfortless. Jack you said-No I don't believe in the so called Holy Spirit ot the trinty doctrine. I belive that there is one God the Father and the Son. Who are both equal in all things.[End Quote] Jack, I'm still unsure of what you believe. You say you don't believe in the trinity. Do you believe in "God the father, God the son, God the Holy spirit"? That is a Trinity. or maybe "God the father, son and holy spirit". That's a trinity too. Do you believe Christ is the father? It seems you believe in "One God the father and the son". But that's 2 God's. That is not a "he" as the bible calls God. But that is a "they" or "them". The bible says "There is one God the father" and "no other God but "HE"". It's singular. "God the father said to the son of God, let us make man in our image"[See Gen 1:26]. An often misunderstood passage. Let me show you what Ms. White says about who God is and who Christ is: TheScriptures clearly indicate the relation between God and Christ, andthey bring to view as clearly the personality and individuality ofeach. [Hebrews 1:1-5 quoted.] God is the Father of Christ; Christ isthe Son of God. To Christ has been given an exalted position. He has been made equal with the Father. All the counsels of God are opened to His Son. (Ellen White, Testimonies for the Church, vol. 8, page 268) So she says "scriptures clearly indicate that God is the father alone" "Christ is the son of God.
Letthe brightest example the world has yet seen be your example, ratherthan the greatest and most learned men of the age, who know not God,nor Jesus Christ whom he has sent. The Father and the Son alone are to be exalted. (Ellen White, The Youth’s Instructor, July 7, 1898) | |
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-- 1Jn 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
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Member Posts: 140 |
David study my messages. When Jesus was tempted by Satan in the What was the answer from Jesus? Did he told Satan that he was the Eternal son of God. Yhat would have destryed His mission that we can like him as a human being life him overcome Satan and sin. Satan has troughly deceive the whole world that Mary is the Mother of God. Jack. But Jesus has declared that he is the way to the Father and the Father can give us the power to overcome Satan and sin. Jahn 14:15-17. Revelation 3:20-21. | |
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Member Posts: 178 |
Hi Jack,
You said-David study my messages. When Jesus was tempted by Satan in the Whatwas the answer from Jesus? Did he told Satan that he was the Eternalson of God. Yhat would have destryed His mission that we can like himas a human being life him overcome Satan and sin.[End Quote] Well, I've been reading what your saying. Your english is difficult for me to understand. My apologies. There is spellling mistakes and your last sentence of the paragraph above I cannot understand. Also your not specifying what you are correcting if you are correcting anything. As far as whether Jesus is the son of God from eternity. This is true. There was time when he was begotten in eternity. The firstborn of every creature. You said-Satan has troughly deceive the whole world that Mary is the Mother of God.[END QUOTE] I think I understand what your saying here. I think your referring to the fact that he was the "son of man" when he became a man. This is true, and I do agree with this. However he is still the son of God. Even though Mary did not begat him in his godly nature. He was in the form of God first. Then emptied himself, and was made in the likeness of men as the son of man. However he was still the son of god. I know Satan questioned "if thou be the son of God?" Also Caiaphis asked the same question "If thou be the son of God?" Some asked him that question on the cross "If thou be the son of God?" This question was meant to tempt him. To imply that he wasn't the son of God. This is a doctrine of the modern churches today. They don't believe Jesus is the "son of God". So they won't admit it. They say he is God himself. Which denies God is the father, and then denies he is the son of God. [See 1 JOhn 2:22]. But let's look at what Peter said and then at what Jesus said. Mat 16:13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? Mat 16:14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elijah; and others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets. Mat 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Peter said "thou art the son of the living God". Yet being the "son of man", he did not cease to be "the son of God". This is the rock[statement] on which the true church is built. Joh 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? He said "I am the son of God". This is blasphemy to the pharisees. They were denying this fact. They were denying the rock on which the true church is built. Here is what a Roman centurion said: Mat 27:54 .....Truly this was the Son of God. 1Jn 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? Really important to never deny. Christ was the son of God even when he was a man. If you have time try to read this article: http://www.elijah144.com/theelijahmessage.htm
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-- 1Jn 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
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Member Posts: 140 |
David. When the Father brought forth the Son of God did he brought fort also at the same time Jesus the Son of men or did he created later the Son of Man? Revelation 1:8 clearly tels us that the Father brought forth the almighty Jehovah the Son of God Who became the son of man and will come again as that eternal son God And not as the Son of man. In Old Testament time Jehovah the Son of God was the saviour of the world. In Jesus time the Father became the Saviour of the world through the mediation of Jesus Christ, Fathe and Son are one Jesus was not o ne with the Father as he was befotre he came to thid earth as the Son of man. According to Jesus he was not in the glory of His Father in heaven. As he have stated in John 17:4,5. we are not allowed to change the words in the Bible to make our understanding in harmony with our believe. John 14:15-17 clearly state the Jesus will give us to his Father and through Him we receive salvation. Jack. | |
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Member Posts: 17 |
When the Father brought forth the Son of God did he brought fort also at the same time Jesus the Son of men or did he created later the Son of Man? The plan for the Son of man was determined in the counsel of peace between Father and Son. The Son of man, who was named Jesus did came into being at Bethlehem. As for Revelation 1:8, it is generally accepted by Trinitarians that the "almighty" is referring to Jesus Christ. I do not share this belief. I believe that title to belong to the Father alone. Consider that in Isaiah 9:5 Christ is there referred to as the "mighty God." While I'm sure the Father would not deny his Son anything, I believe that the Father's Son respects his Father, and would do nothing to destroy the distinction between them. This is why Christ made a distinction between himself and his Father in John 17:3. When Christ came to earth, he did not change whom he was, just his appearance. He has always been and always will be the Son of the living God. The personality of humanity has liabilities and limitations, Christ accepted all these, but does not retain them at the present, for I believe he is back in the form of God as he was prior to Bethlehem. The only thing that he retains from being a man is the marks of his crucifixion and his experience as a man. How do you understand the word "one"? If you mean unity, then why not use the term? While I agree that we are not allowed to change the words of Scripture, many like to change the meaning of words, thus the words as publish remain the same, but they attach meanings that are not. An example is the word "Eternity" Trinitarians have chosen to define that term as "no beginning and no end" but that is the only way it is defined. Consider the Redeemed, they will be eternal and live for an eternity, yet they had a beginning. The same can be said of the Angels. Eternity is better defined as incomprehensible, infinite, unmeasurable. Consider that if God is Eternal, what is time? It is a measuring stick. And also consider who made time? There is only one God, the Father. There is only one Lord, Jesus Christ. While Christ is Lord, he is also the Son of the Father in truth, not figuratively as the Trinitarian believes. Have you notices that whenever the word "Christ" is defined in Scripture it is usually defined as "the Son of the living God" or "Son of God"? When Pauls eyes were opened the bible records that he went to the synagogues preaching that Christ was the Son of God.
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Member Posts: 140 |
David a simple question. at the present time can we receive salvation by Jesus Christ our through Jesus Christ? In old testament time did we receve salvation by the Father or the Son of God? If you answer is by the Father than the statement that we con only receive savation in Jesus Christ. Who ws before the Son of God. In Old Testament times it was by the Son of God who came to this earth as the Son of Man. Jesus was before the Son of God who became the Son of Man and will come again as the Son of God.. Revelation 1:8. This can not be speaking of the Father because he never laid down His live for us. Died for us overcame Satan and sin and will come again to judge mankind. The Father wil give this judgement to his Son. After he has defeated Satan. The Father can't deal with sin only His Son can. For this reason the Son must mediated between the human race and His Father. A inportant thing to remember is this we can only follow Jesus as a human being not as the Son of God. Jack. . | |
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Member Posts: 178 |
Hi Jack, We receive salvation through Jesus Christ. Everything proceeds forth from the father. As Historic Adventist said. The plan of salvation was arranged between the counsels of the father and son. “So in the heavenly courts, in His ministry forall created beings: throughthe beloved Son, the Father's life flows out to all; through the Son it returns, in praise andjoyous service, a tide of love, to the great Source of all. And thus through Christ the circuit of beneficence is complete,representing the character of the great Giver, the law of life.” {The Desire of Ages, p. 21} Notice the order. From God through Christ to us. That is the heavenly order. “Tothe believer, Christ is the resurrection and the life. In our Saviour the lifethat was lost through sin is restored; for He has life in Himself to quickenwhom He will. He is invested with the right to giveimmortality. Thelife that He laid down in humanity, He takes up again, and gives to humanity.”{The Desire of Ages,p 786, 787} That life that was in the father was given to Christ then it is given to us. “Beforethe foundations of the earth were laid, theFather and the Son had united in a covenant to redeem man if heshould be overcome by Satan.They had clasped Their hands in asolemn pledge that Christ should become the suretyfor the human race.This pledge Christ has fulfilled. When upon the cross He cried out, "It isfinished," He addressed the Father.”{The Desire of Ages,p. 834}
“Goddid not ordain that sin should exist, but He foresaw its existence, and madeprovision to meet the terrible emergency. Sogreat was His love for the world, that He covenanted to give His only-begottenSon, "that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, buthave everlasting life." John 3:16.” {TheDesire of Ages, p. 22}
“Toknow God is to love Him; His character must be manifested in contrast to thecharacter of Satan. This work only one Being in all theuniverse could do. Only He who knew the height and depth ofthe love of God could make it known.”[The Desire of Ages, p. 22} Hope that helps. As far as Rev 1:8. That is another topic. Really we can look at that in this thread...There is a responce there to the Revelation 1:8 question. http://www.elijah144.com/apps/forums/topics/show/615450-who-is-speaking-in-revelation-1-8
Blessings, David.
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-- 1Jn 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
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Member Posts: 140 |
David the writings of Mrs White is not the word of God if there is a conflect we must follow the word of God. This is according to Mrs White herself. Many if not all SDA teachers of the Bible have used in debates with the JW people that Revelation 1:8 prove that Revelation1 :8 . is speaking of Jesus Christ that He also is called the almighty one and on in this I agree.. Jack.
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Member Posts: 178 |
Well Jack, That's your choice. I don't if you took a look at that post or not. But here is why I believe it is the father. A greeting is given in verse 4, and 5 which is from God the father, the seven spirits and Jesus. Rev 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne; Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, Notice the title of God in verse 4 "him which is, and which was, and which is to come". That's the father. Next there is greeting from the 7 spirits before the throne, and thirdly from "Jesus Christ". Now let's look at verse 8.
Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. That is the father speaking "him which is, which was, and which is to come, the almighty.". Some fail to see this because they are reading to fast. Thereis nomistaking the Father’s description. He is the one “which is, andwhich was, and which is to come.” Nobody else is given thatdescription. In fact, this description is in definite contrast to Jesuswho is “the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead.”
The red coloring is added in the text and is not inspired. Let's look further. Rev 4:8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.
Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. Christ is beside the Lord God almighty. Rev 15:3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvelous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.
Rev 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. Revelation 1:8 is the father, the one which is, which was, and which is to come. The Lord God almighty. The Lamb is beside him.
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-- 1Jn 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
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Member Posts: 178 |
Also about Ellen White, this was a gift from God. The Conference has rejected this gift and sadly that is why they are so far off the track. Ms. White pointed to the scriptures that's right. We need to prove our points from scripture. That's why I gave you the link to the bible study on "The hour of Judgment". Ms. White was 100% in agreement with scripture on this doctrine of the sanctuary in heaven and the timing of all these events. | |
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-- 1Jn 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
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Member Posts: 140 |
Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. That is the father speaking "him which is, which was, and which is to come, the almighty.". Some fail to see this because they are reading to fast. Let us read this very slowly and look of it make sence What is the Father at the present time? Jehovah the Almighty one? What was he before? Jehovah the Almighty one? And when will he come again as Jehovah the Almighty on? There is no mistaking the Father’s description. He is the one “which is, and which was, and which is to come.” Nobody else is given that description. In fact, this description is in definite contrast to Jesus who is “the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead.”
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Member Posts: 17 |
Revelation 1:8 seems to be difficult for some, a riddle if you will. We need a demonstration! A riddle to make a point. Here it is: A man came into town on friday, stayed for three days, and left on friday. How did he do that? Any takers? | |
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