I have reserved to myself 144,000 who will not bow to the image

John 1:1 is a good question. It means exactly what it says. But it's referring to Christ's nature. Not to who he is.

The verse says "He was with God". Who is he with? He's with the father right. Not a Trinity. And "He was God". Christ was "in the form of God"[Phi 2:6]. However he was not the eternal God. He was with him. He was equal with him. Who was he with? Who was he equal with? Obviously it's the father "The only true God"[John 17:3].

It's God who Gave Christ his nature. So God made Christ God in nature[Heb 1:8]. This was "Given" to Christ[Matt 28:18]. The Trinitarian believes Christ posessed this on his own.

But Phi 2 tells us "God has highly exalted him that at his name should every knee bow". Heb 1 says "God said let all the angels worship him". All to the glory of our one God the father.

It's like you having a child. This is a comparison.

But think about this, lets' say your nature is God. In actuality and reality right now you are in the likeness of men. But let's say you are "the God, the only God, there is no other God". I'm just giving you a comparison don't get me wrong here.

Let's also say you have a son. This son by birth posesses your nature. He is born flesh of flesh, bone of bone, God by nature. So in the beginning was the word, the word was with "the God"[which would be you in the example], and the word was God by nature.

Is the word the God? No. He is God by nature though. Now look closer at John 1 now that you understand John's language. Now it will make sense if you understand what I'm saying.

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

The word was the only begotten of the father. Now look at verse 18 and notice that God is the father alone, and no man has seen him.

Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

No man has seen God at any time. It's a fact. This refers to "THE God". No man has seen him, but the son has declared him. The son is a perfect copy[express image] of him. But he "the God" is the father alone.

Now hopefully you can see here who is "THE God" and what is meant by Christ and his nature. Compare John 1 to this..

Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Php 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

Who is he in the form of? The father. Who is he equal with? The father. No Trinity here obviously, and not 2 Gods. Christ is not another God, nor is he the eternal God himself, however he was fully God in nature. Hopefully you understand what I mean.

Notice a few verses later what it says..

Php 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

Php 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

Php 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

God exalted him, God made him equal. And every knee is not bowing to the glory of God the trinity, nor are they bowing to the glory of God the father and God the son. But they are bowing and confessing Christ is Lord to the glory of God the father, the only true God, there is no other God but he.

1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

You understand what is meant by the nature of Christ. He was God by nature, but yet not the eternal God.

"But although Christ's glory was for a time veiled and eclipsed by His assuming humanity, yet He did not cease to be God when He became man...The man Christ Jesus was not the Lord God Almighty, yet Christ and the Father are one." Ellen White SDA Bible Commentary, vol.5 p.1129

Let me know if you understand this.

John 1:1 is a good question. It means exactly what it says. But it's referring to Christ's nature. Not to who he is.

The verse says "He was with God". Who is he with? He's with the father right. Not a Trinity. And "He was God". Christ was "in the form of God"[Phi 2:6]. However he was not the eternal God. He was with him. He was equal with him. Who was he with? Who was he equal with? Obviously it's the father "The only true God"[John 17:3].

He was one and equal with His Father.

It's God who Gave Christ his nature. So God made Christ God in nature[Heb 1:8]. This was "Given" to Christ[Matt 28:18]. When did He do this?

The Trinitarian believes Christ posessed this on his own.

He did posses this when He was one with His Father from eternity.

But Jesus Has been given this after he was born of Mary as the Son of Man.

But Phi 2 tells us "God has highly exalted him that at his name should every knee bow". Heb 1 says "God said let all the angels worship him". All to the glory of our one God the father.

Are we allowed to worship Jesus if we do not understand that He was fully Human and in sinful flesh This was the position of the Son of God before He came to tis earth.

It's like you having a child. This is a comparison.

But think about this, lets' say your nature is God. In actuality and reality right now you are in the likeness of men. But let's say you are "the God, the only God, there is no other God". I'm just giving you a comparison don't get me wrong here. ?

Let's also say you have a son. This son by birth posesses your nature. He is born flesh of flesh, bone of bone, God by nature. So in the beginning was the word, the word was with "the God"[which would be you in the example], and the word was God by nature.

This is your understanding but not in the word of God. There is a way that seems tight to men but the end will be eternal destruction.

Is the word the God? No. He is God by nature through. Now look closer at John 1 now that you understand John's language. Now it will make sense if you understand what I'm saying.

I understand what you are sying but I don’t agree with it if not clearly proven by the word of God.

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

When did this happen? Before or after he became the Son of Man?

The word was the only begotten of the father. Now look at verse 18 and notice that God is the father alone, and no man has seen him. Our has heard His voice

Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

When was The Son of God in the bosom of His Father? Not from eternity? If so when did eternity started?

No man has seen God at any time. It's a fact. This refers to "THE God". No man has seen him, but the son has declared him. The son is a perfect copy[express image] of him. But he "the God" is the father alone.

If the Father can be called Jehovah so the Son without a beginning can be called also Jehovah.

Now hopefully you can see here who is "THE God" and what is meant by Christ and his nature. Compare John 1 to this..

Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

So He is equal with His Father in all things and should be called as the scriptures state clearly Jehovah the Son of God. Revelation 1:8.

Php 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

What was he before? Jehovah the Son of God.

Who is he in the form of? The father. Who is he equal with? The father. No Trinity here obviously, and not 2 Gods.

No three persons in the Godhead but just two as the Bible clearly explained.

Christ is not another God, nor is he the eternal God himself, however he was fully God in nature. Hopefully you understand what I mean.

I understand what you are sying but it is not what the scripture teach.

Notice a few verses later what it says..

Php 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

Php 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

Php 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Correct Jesus is the only one through we can have Salvation before was by the Son of God and will be by His Father at the present time but only through Him The Son of God who became the son of Man. After the final victory of The Son of Man will the Son of God end the great controversy between The Son of God and Satan .There is only one God that we can be saved by Him or trough Him.

God exalted him, God made him equal. Not made He was equal. And every knee is not bowing to the glory of God the trinity, nor are they bowing to the glory of God the father and God the son. But they are bowing and confessing Christ is Lord to the glory of God the father, the only true God, there is no other God but he.

1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

You understand what is meant by the nature of Christ. He was God by nature, but yet not the eternal God.

"But although Christ's glory was for a time veiled and eclipsed by His assuming humanity, yet He did not cease to be God when He became man...The man Jesus is not the Lord God Almighty at the present time, But He was before as the Son of God and will be again when he will come again as the Son of God.

yet Christ and the Father are one." Ellen White SDA Bible Commentary, vol.5 p.1129

The SDA Bible commentary is not the Bible.

Let me know if you understand this.

Jack you said.."What was he before? Jehovah the Son of God."

Jack,

Nowhere in scripture are the words "Jehovah, the son of God"  used.  Nowhere in scripture does it say "God the son".   Jesus came in Jehovah's[the father's] name. Not in his own name. 

Joh 5:43  I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

Jack you said..He did posses this when He was one with His Father from eternity.But Jesus Has been given this after he was born of Mary as the Son of Man.[End Quote]

Where is your scriptural proof.  Phillipians 2:6 is saying "before he was in the likeness of men, he was in the form of God"  Just because he is God by nature, does not make him the individual known as the only true God.  Just because he came in his father's name, this doesn't make him the father.

God gave his equality, this is how giving the father is.  And this happened before he became a man.  In fact a Hebrew child is not called a son of God until he is 12 years old.   This was true of Christ the son of man. 

Jack said " I understand what you are sying but I don’t agree with it if not clearly proven by the word of God.[End Quote]

You know Jack that John 1:1 contradicts if you believe Christ was with God and is the eternal God you have a contradiction.  Then you have another contradiction in verse 18 because it says "no man has seen God"  but yet men seen Christ. 

You have several other contradictions that I could list if you truly believe Christ is Jehovah himself.  If Christ wasn't the son before Mary.  Then God didn't really give his only begotten son.  Think about it.  God gave his partner who became a son through Mary??

The equality that was given to Christ was what caused the jealousy of Lucifer and Lucifer's fall. 

If you don't want to take these commentary as an authority at least consider them as they explain that Christ was given his authority before he came in the likeness of men.  

The great Creator assembled the heavenly host, that he might in the presence of all the angels confer special honor upon his Son. The Son was seated on the throne with the Father, and the heavenly throng ofholy angels was gathered around them. The Father then made known that it was ordained by himself that Christ should be equal with himself; so that wherever was the presence of his Son, it was as his own presence. His word was to be obeyed as readily as the word of theFather. His Son he had invested with authority to command the heavenly host. (Ellen White, The Signs of the Times, January 9, 1879; also in Spirit of Prophecy, vol. 1, pages 18, 19)

The Scriptures clearly indicate the relation between God and Christ, and they bring to view as clearly the personality and individuality of each. [Hebrews 1:1-5 quoted.] God is the Father of Christ; Christ is the Son of God. To Christ has been given an exalted position. He has been made equal with the Father. All the counsels of God are opened to His Son. (Ellen White, Testimonies for the Church, vol. 8, page 268)

I don't know what you think of those, but those quotes clearly define two individuals "God" and "Christ" and also that Christ was GIVEN equality ordained in heaven before he became a man.

The Scriptures clearly indicate the relation between God and Christ, and they bring to view as clearly the personality and individuality of each. [Hebrews 1:1-5 quoted.] God is the Father of Christ; Christ is the Son of God.

 When did he became the Son of God?  

To Christ has been given an exalted position. When took this place?

 Was this not equal when His Father brought Him forth from His bosom?

He has been made equal with the Father.

 If the Father has made Him equal with Himself did he not create a other God?

 No He did not because He was already equal with His Father from eternitty.  And according to the word of God they are one God.

All the counsels of God.

Are those counsels between one person or more than one person.

 are opened to His Son. (Ellen White, Testimonies for the Church, vol. 8, page 268)

Jack.

Hi Jack,

Christ was the son of God way before he was a man.  Lucifer knew he was the son of God way before Christ became a man.  And he was jealous because Christ entered into God's counsels[Zech 6:14, John 1:1, Col 1:15, Pro 8:22-30]. 

If Christ wasn't the son of God before he became a man.  Then God didn't really send his son in the world, and that makes God a liar.[1 John 5:10]. 

 Jack you said: If the Father has made Him equal with Himself did he not create a other God?[End Quote]

The bible says Christ is the firstborn of every creature and therefore cannot be a creature.  Christ is the only begotten of God.  This equality was given to the son.   Christ is not the father of himself. 

If you believe they are one God then you have a serious issue because that means God didn't send his son, but he sent himself, and this is what is termed "Another gospel which is not a gospel"[Gal 1:4-8]. 

The bible doesn't say "the father and son are one GOd"  The bible says "God is the father of Christ, and Christ is Lord to the glory of God the father".  Lord is not implying "LORD" or "YHWH" but rather "master". 

The authority Christ had came from the father.   The source of all power.  The father is greater than Christ[John 14:27] in the sense that he was first.  The son is equal in the sense that God[the father] gave him all things just as the bible clearly teaches. 

Jack you asked: Are those counsels between one person or more than one person.[End Quote]

Zec 6:13  Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.

Both=2 beings..

David144

Member

Posts: 83 Hi Jack,

Christ was the son of God way before he was a man. Lucifer knew he was the son of God way before Christ became a man. And he was jealous because Christ entered into God's counsels[Zech 6:14, John 1:1, Col 1:15, Pro 8:22-30].

Prov. 8:20-30. this chapter is talking about wisdom did The Father create wisdom or was wisdom always part of God.?

Some people say that in Isaiah 9:6 Jesus is called "mighty God" but not the "almighty God" and this is unjust an excuse. In this verse Jesus is also called "the everlasting Father" which certaily puts Him on  full equality with God. That the term "almighty" can be given to Jesus is seen in Revelation 1:8. The context, that is the words before before and after Revelation 1:8 deals with Jesus. The expression "alpha and omega" the beginning and the ending" also points directly to Jesus. Note verse 1:17 (last part) Especially 22:13-16. To sayu that God the Father is "The Almighty God" and that the Son is "the mighthy God" would of course give us two God's, Which the Bible says cannot be

(saiah 43:10. This is a official statement from the SDA Church.

Jack.

Proverbs 8:23 says wisdom said of itself it is "begotten[brought forth]".   Proverbs 8:22 says "Setup from... the beginning".  So he is the beginning.  In the beginning was the word, setup from everlasting, from the beginning brought forth before anything made was made. 

So obviously if he was begotten before anything made was made then wisdom isn't created. 

1Co 1:24  But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

1Co 1:30  But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom

Who alone is brought forth[begotten].  Unless wisdom is another begotten and Christ isn't the "only begotten".  

As far as your reasoning about Isaiah 9:6.  Your saying that because Christ was made unto us a father, that this means he is the eternal God.  In my last post I showed the extremism of this type of reasoning.

This is what you said."Jesus is also called "the everlasting Father" which certaily puts Him on  full equality with God."[END QUOTE]

I don't disagree Christ is equal with God.  Equal with the only true God the father and no other God but him.  But your obviously implying more then just equality.  Your trying to imply that he is God himself.  Are angels everlasting?  Would you be everlasting should you prevail?  And thirdly what does "setup from everlasting" mean to you?  Does that imply that it's possible to be setup from everlasting?

Also since Abraham and Jacob are fathers, and they too will be everlasting.  Does that make them Jehovah himself?  The context of the verse is "shall be called everlasting father".  This has nothing to do with Christ equality.  It's just a title.  The same title that Adam had as father of the human race.  Read Isaiah 22:21. Look at the context of this.  Then let me ask.  Is Eliakim equal with God because he is made a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem? 

Isa 22:20  And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will call my servant Eliakim the son of Hilkiah:

Isa 22:21  And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.

Isa 22:22  And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.

And also notice in those verses that Eliakim typifies Christ.  He shall be called "everlasting father".

Secondly you used the phrase "mighty God" to imply that Christ is the almighty one the father.  There is only one "Almighty one".  That's why he's called the "almighty one" and not the "almighty two".  

God expects us to reason together here Jack.  And we can't reason with something that is beyond reason like the Trinity.   One God the father and no other God but he.  

There is one individual known as God.  That is the father. 

There is two individuals who posess the nature of God, the father and the son.

The son came in the father's name and is an express image of the father.  No man has seen God at any time.  Has any man seen Christ Jack? John clarifies by saying no man has seen the father.  Jesus says the father is "the only true God".  Jesus also concurred "there is no other God but he".  

So Jesus is not him.  If Jesus is not the father, he is not THE God.  Though he was in the form of God, he is not the God. 

Prov. 8:20-30. this chapter is talking about wisdom did The Father create wisdom or was wisdom always part of God.?

Some people say that in Isaiah 9:6 Jesus is called "mighty God" but not the "almighty God" and this is unjust an excuse. In this verse Jesus is also called "the everlasting Father" which certaily puts Him on full equality with God. That the term "almighty" can be given to Jesus is seen in Revelation 1:8. The context, that is the words before before and after Revelation 1:8 deals with Jesus. The expression "alpha and omega" the beginning and the ending" also points directly to Jesus. Note verse 1:17 (last part) Especially 22:13-16. To sayu that God the Father is "The Almighty God" and that the Son is "the mighthy God" would of course give us two God's, Which the Bible says cannot be

(saiah 43:10. This is a official statement from the SDA Church.

 David we are not comming to a agreement so I will leave your side and spend my time with other people.

God bless. 

Jack.

Well Jack, 

I'm not saying 2 Gods.  There is only one true God the father.  And he gave Christ his God nature.   That does not make him a little God, but he is fully God in nature.  He also came in his fathers name.  In this sense he revealed to us his father who is his God and my God.  Being God in nature does he is God the individual.

As far as Proverbs 8:22-30.  Are you no longer Adventist?  Adventists have always believed this referred to Christ.  JW's might believe similar, but they don't beleive Christ was "brought forth[begotten]" either just like Trinitarians. 

I don't understand what you are trying to prove by asking me was wisdom always a part of God?  Of course it was.  But this trait is also the sons, and the son was made wisdom unto us, and the son says of himself "I was brought forth before the world was, before anything made was made, setup from everlasting, from the beginning". 

“TheLord Jesus Christ, the divine Son of God,existed from eternity, a distinct person, yet one with the Father. He was the surpassing glory of heaven. He was the commander of the heavenly intelligences,and the adoring homage of theangels was received by him as his right. This was no robbery of God. "The Lordpossessed me in the beginning of his way," he declares, "before his works of old. I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever theearth was. When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were nofountains abounding with water. Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth; while as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world. When he prepared the heavens,I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth."” {E. G.White, Review and Herald,April 5, 1906 par. 7} 

Anyways Jack, I will keep you in my prayers that you will come to "unity of the faith and knowledge of the son of God"[Eph 4:13].  There is only one body of believers who has this truth.  One God the father, One Lord Jesus Christ, One faith, [Eph 4:5,6] and i pray that you will have fellowship with us and truly our fellowship is with the father and the son.[1 John 1:3]

David are you a supporter of the Church of God the former church of Herbert Amstrong?

Jack.

Jack,

Go to this page and tell me who I'm a supporter of.

http://www.elijah144.com/pioneersonthetrinity.htm

I believe what the Seventh Adventist church believed before they apostacized from the faith delivered to the saints. 

Where do you think I differ with our pioneers? Why don't you ask me "Are you are a supporter of EJ Waggoner, AT Jones, Ellen White, James White, Uriah Smith, Joseph Bates, JH Waggoner, JN Andrews"? 

I believe nothing like Herbert Armstrong.  I find that question almost ridiculous.  But if your serious pardon me.  I guess your not familiar with the Historic Adventist Faith. 

How about you read this article. 

http://www.elijah144.com/egwontrinity.htm

See who I'm a supporter of. Not Herbert Armstrong.  That article is called "Ellen White on the Trinity".  I' m a huge supporter of her work.  I have an entire section dedicated to it.  And she believed Proverbs 8:22-30 was Christ speaking unlike the fallen General Conference church today.

In order that the human family might have no excuse because of temptation, Christ became one with them. The only being who was one with God lived the law in humanity, descended to the lowly life of a common laborer, and toiled at the carpenter’s bench with his earthly parent. (Ellen White, The Signs of the Times, October 14, 1897 par. 3)

 David what was He, before He laid down His position in heaven? Was He able to foregive our sins? Yes He was. Was He not equal with His Father?

 Was He able to forgive our sins when he became Jesus Christ fuly Human?

 Was he also equal with His Father when he was in human form?

 No His Father was greater than Him.

 No it was through Him be the power of His Father.. John 14:15-17.

When will he be restored to His rightfull position as the Son of God in heaven

 At that point He will be again Eual with His Father.

 This is what Revelation 1:8 is telling us. Can you give Mrs White few on Revelation 1:8. Who is Jehovah mentioned in the text.  Advent believe is that it was Jehovah Jesus Christ.

Jack.

Hi Jack,

Christ was in the form of God and with God before becoming a man.  Christ was the express image of God begotten in the image of God.  All power and authority was his.  He could do anything in his father's name.  In the same sense you can do anything in Christs name.  Obviously not anything, but with regards to his will you can. 

As far as Christ being equal with the father.  Can you show by scripture where it says he isn't equal now.  From what I know he said before he left "all power in heaven and earth is given to me"[Matt 28:18]. 

As far as telling me that he will be restored to a position.  I know that when he delivers the Kingdom he will still be subject unto his father. 

1Co 15:28  And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Jack,

I can't just take your word regarding Revelation 1:8.  We have 1000's of scriptures to enlighten on Revelation 1:8.  And I think just by looking at the context we can see who "him which is, which was, and which is to come" is.  Verse 4 and 5 tell us there are 2 beings.  God and Christ.  Verse 1 tells us God and Christ. They are definitely not the same being. 

In fact it says in verse 1 that God even gave Christ the Revelation. God gave it to him.   I don't see why your arguing so hard about this one verse.  Also with regards to Revelation 1:8 do you have any references.  And I'm not talking about modern day Seventh Day Adventists.  I'm talking about Historic Adventists.   I'm open to hearing.  You can't just tell me I'm wrong.  That is not how to convince me.  You have lay it out in the scriptures. 

You make a point about Christ being restored to his rightful position in heaven.   I understand his position as high priest and when he is crowned King of Kings.  I'm not sure if this is what your referring to.   But if so, then I understand this.  But I don't believe Christ was ever King in the OT.  He was called Prince Michael.  And Prince refers to the son of the King.

David I like you to look at this message.

              Who will not make it to the kingdom of God

                              according to Matt 22:8-9.

God's grace was sufficient to save the world. The one's responsible for not reaching this point of salvation is first Satan and his fallen angels they did know God. Secondly people who also have known God but have followed the way of the ruler of this earth his commandments and false teachings like the fallen angels. Those will receive the same faith as Satan their master. If both has been faithful to God we would not have the situation to begin with . And with rejecting the gospel of Jesus Christ as designed by God we have mist they way back to God So He could save this world and save us. I believe many Christian will miss out on their salvation well others will good and bad alike will enter the kingdom of God. Matthew 22:9-10. Then he called his servants and said to them, "My wedding feast is ready, but the people I invited did not deserve it. Now go to the main streets and invite to the feast as many people as you find. So the servants went out into the street and gathered all the people they could find, good and bad alike; and the wedding hall was filled with people.

Jack.

So called Christians who are not helping with the harvest will miss out of the kingdom of heaven. Jesus told us those who are not gathering with Him are against the his gospel. Jesus told if you lift Me up instead of fighting among yourself I would have drawn the whole world to me. Be as it is the whole Christian world has forsaken me.

Jack, question to my from Baptist 444.

How can an uninformed baby or child or mentally challenged person make a cognizant decision to be baptized or born again or even make a statement of faith? Is Gods' arm too short to reach these of His loved ones?

Study me message who will not make it to the kingdom of heaven?

I have stated that only the one's that like Satan and his fallen angels have willfully disobeyed God and His commandments will not enter the kingdom of God.

Many are invited but few will accept the invitation and willing to meet the requirements of God. I have stated that according to Matthew 22:9. That God send out his angels to bring in the good and the bad to heaven and they will be prepared for the kingdom of God on earth over the period of a thousand year. We serve a just God no one will miss out of the kingdom prepared for his people the New Earth because the so-called people of God has not done there duty to proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ the way God has intended to be. This period of time would have been on this earth if the Jews would have been faithful but they were not. This would have been on this earth Malachi 4:4,5. if the followers of Jesus Christ would have been faithful to the gospel but they were not.

Remember God's grace was sufficient to save the whole world and has been the case for the other worlds created by God.

Jack.

Hi Jack,

I agree good and bad alike are called.  Only the repentant who cease from willful known sin will enter the Kingdom of God.  I'm not 100% on what your saying about the 1000 years.  Jesus is coming for a church with no guile[error].  They are not gonna be teaching a Trinity, they will be perfectly united in keeping Gods commandments and the faith of Jesus. 

I guess there is a work we won't get done here and that would include conversion of the world.  But we are gonna finish the work, and few there be that find it.   Just like in the days of Noah. 

Sadly alot of children never had a chance in this world.   God doesn't tell us that they end up in the Kingdom of God.  Though we can be assured they are not resurrected at the end of the 1000 years to suffer the final judgement.  We can also know that they will not burn in eternal torment.  Whatever Gods judgment is.  It is just. 

Rev 16:7  And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments.

Hi Jack,

I agree good and bad alike are called. Only the repentant who cease from willful known sin will enter the Kingdom of God. I'm not 100% on what your saying about the 1000 years. Jesus is coming for a church with no guile[error]. They are not gonna be teaching a Trinity, they will be perfectly united in keeping Gods commandments and the faith of Jesus.

 Daved. is heaven our final distany os the New Earth?

Heaven has been a battle place for more than 4000 years and a place Satan has gained victory by deceiving one third of the angels Angels are not immortal if they sin they will be destroyed.

 All people will receive the true gospel and can make up there mind. But When  brought to a place where Satan can't deceive them they will turn to God and will obey His will and all will be saved only those living on earth have received the true gospel will be judged and those who fall short on the requirements of God will be lost.

 We have a just God and all will have the opportunity to be saved.

 So be careful if you believe that knowledge will save us.

Jack.

David ,Those include who has been misled by false teachers and has not received the power of God's spirit so to be saved. And all will be resurrected and be brought to heaven and will receive  the true gospel .And at this point will not be judged. This is the reason that Jesus is coming back to save the world from the power of Satan.

 Who will receive the gospel of salvation and reject this gospel? No one.

 All those will enter the kingdom of God not just heaven which is not our final place but the New Earth created by God for His People.

Jack.

Well Jack,

If you believe that then you better prove it from scripture.  My bible says he's coming back for 144,000 who have no guile in their mouth.  There will be alot of knowledge they don't have, however with regards to the gospel, they will know their God.  This is the last message of the 144,000.  Fear God and give glory to him.  They will also know the gospel[Rev 14:7]. 

They will have the testimony of Jesus Christ, there will be no guile found in there mouth.  They will overcome all sin.  And according to Jesus if they do his will they will know the doctrine[John 7:17].  They are not saved by this knowledge, this knowledge is something God gives them when they walk in the light and truth they already have. 

As far as who will reject the gospel.  People reject it everyday.  People who are decieved normally are decieved because they chose not to search it out.  They get tired and weary.  They give up.  But if they would seek, they would find that there is one faith which comes by the word of God.  And there is a unity in this faith and knowledge of the son of God.  

If someone is truly an honest child God will guide them into the truth, and many will slide into heaven with a basic understanding of the fundamental principles.  They will know the father and his character, his love, and his gospel.  

But this is where we make our decision.  Heaven is not a place to make up your mind. When Jesus comes "him who is guilty will be guilty still, him that is righteouss will be righteouss still."

By the way you asked me about "Church of God" teachings.  What your teaching here is very much like what they teach.  Were you ever associated with them. 

David how many will be ready before the millinniium start only the 144.000.

 What about all the other people are they lost?

 What who has made the 144.000 victorious over sin and Satan.  Is it not the Holy Spirit the power of God.?

What is the reason that the world is not reached by the Holy Spirit.. Many of the people who has received the true gospel was found not worthy  to enter the kingdom of God and will be lost. They have neglected to do the gospel work required from them.

Christ was the first fruit and the 144.000 are his true followers.

 They will convert the people outside the reach of Satan and his followers.

 What will happen after the 1000 years? Christ will return and resurrect those who where not worthy to enter the kingdom of God They will aproach the ciity of God and God will destroy them.

 Who will be destroyed all who has received the truth and have not do the will of God so to be saved.

 I am not supporting any Church I work for more than 25 years on my own with the power of the Holy Spirit.

Jack.

Hi Jack,

I agree good and bad alike are called. Not Just called but taken to the wedding hall

Only the repentant who cease from willful known sin will enter the Kingdom of God.

Correct but the Kingdom of God is not heaven but the New Earth.  I'm not 100% on what your saying about the 1000 years. Jesus is coming for a church with no guile[error]. mentioned in Revelation as the 144.000 redeemed from this world.

They are not gonna be teaching a Trinity, They will be perfectly united in keeping Gods commandments and the faith of Jesus..

Jack.